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Why does God allow suffering? Theologians and philosophers have struggled with this question for ages. After all, if God is all powerful and all knowing, can't he prevent or stop it? For some people, this is a stumbling block to faith, and they never get past it.
I would not be so presumptuous as to claim an authoritative answer that others have missed. However, I do think there are some insights into this mystery, that God has provided in his Word.
The problem of suffering appears to be centered around free will. God created us (and the angels) with free will, and if he had not, we would be mere robots - not truly alive. He created us as free moral agents, with the ability to choose right or wrong.
However, freedom is a dangerous thing, since it can be abused. The Bible says that Satan was once a covering Cherub full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. It says he was perfect in all of his ways until iniquity was found in him (Ez. 28). God didn't make a devil, he created a powerful being who chose to become evil. In fact, pride was identified as the cause of his fall.
The Bible says he rebelled and there was war in heaven. The devil was cast out and his angels (one third chose to follow him) were cast out with him (Rev. 12). God could have destroyed them on the spot, but he doesn't want his creation to serve him out of fear, but out of love. In his sovereignty, he predetermined a set amount of time, to allow these issues to be experientially understood by all. That sin causes suffering, that evil must be destroyed because of the terrible consequences it brings.
Ecclesiastes 3:17 God will bring to judgment both the righteous and the wicked, for there will be a time for every activity, a time for every deed
To this day, fallen angels, and also fallen men, are in rebellion against God and make war against his saints. Many battles take place in the Spiritual realm, and like any war there are casualties. Sometimes innocent children are hurt or killed. No one is more grieved by this than God, but rest assured, not even a sparrow falls to the ground without his knowledge and care (Mt.10:29).
Vengeance is mine sayest the Lord and although it may seem (from our limited perspective) that injustices and cruelty go unanswered, they do not. God is independent of time (as we understand it), and every crime will meet with judgment in the end (Heb. 10:30).
Judgment is coming, sin and sinners will be no more - there is a set time and place when all this will end (Rev. 20:11). Scripture says affliction will not rise up a second time (Na.1:9). God's principles will be vindicated as righteous and all of creation will worship him in love, without doubting his leadership. They will have freedom, but will not abuse it, nothing impure will remain (Rev. 21:27).
It is written that God is not mocked - we will reap what we sow (Gal. 6:7). God is not mocked because when you choose to remove God from your life, you have no protection from the devil, or from your own evil impulses. Most of us are self destructive and our own worst enemies. It's not that God strikes you down, he respects your freedom and backs away. God is not mocked also, in the sense that no one gets away with anything. Judgment is coming and all your secrets are bare before him.
There will be a happy ending to the story, for all but the unrepentant. Those who turn in repentance to God, and the innocents who suffered at the hands of the wicked, or those who died cruelly from famine or disease before even having a chance to develop - have a God of infinity power and love to restore and heal them.
The Bible says God himself will wipe away our tears (Rev.21:4), and that eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it even entered into the heart of man – the things God has in store for those who love him (1 Cor. 2:9). Those who have suffered in this short life, have much to look forward to - for eternity (Is.65: 17).
It's our linear view of time, our finite minds, our myopic perspective, that prevent us from grasping the ultimate meaning and purpose of this enigma. The great apostle Paul suffered beatings, scourging, stoning, persecution, opposition, shipwreck, peril, privation, imprisonment, and was eventually beheaded - yet he said this:
2 Corinthians 4:17 Our suffering is light and temporary and is producing for us an eternal glory that is greater than anything we can imagine.
There are different reasons and causes for hardship and suffering. Not all suffering is senseless and cruel! There is a form of suffering that is actually good and beneficial. We are told that God disciplines those he loves, like a Father meting out punishment to an erring child. Such discipline is unpleasant, but for our ultimate good (Heb. 12:7-11). We must trust his plan for our lives. Besides corrective discipline, God allows trials and tribulations to strengthen us, and cause spiritual growth.
Romans 5:3 ...we also rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering works perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope: and hope doesn't disappoint us...
Gardeners sometimes prune plants to cause them to grow better. Some things (we perceive as bad or unpleasant) God allows because of the harvest it produces in us Spiritually. This is another form of suffering that is actually good for us, in the long run.
You see, God is not a cosmic Santa Claus like some teachers make him out to be. He is far more interested in forming a right character and faith in you, than he is in spoiling you with wealth, or lavish creature comforts. He may even allow the devil to deprive you of your worldly comforts, to try your faith.
Job's faith was tested and he was a better man because of it. The fact that God gave back double what was taken from him, was just an added bonus to the real benefit - faith tried in the furnace of affliction.
Isa. 48:10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction.
I remind you that I am not talking about the sinful, senseless, mindless brutality that sometimes occurs. Sin and the suffering it causes, is not God's will. He created the earth to be a garden of Eden, which we forsook. Unfortunately, our way back to Eden, is a difficult, rocky, narrow path - not the broad road of ease and self indulgence.
Acts 14:22 "We must endure many hardships to get into the kingdom of God."
1 Peter 1:6-7 ...you have to endure many trials for a little while. These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials...
Peter says above that the trials have a definite purpose - to test and purify our faith so that it is genuine. He says below that we should consider it normal, not strange, that these fiery trials come...
1 Peter 4:12-13: "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you...
It is also helpful to keep in mind that the tests God brings, are only for a season. When their purpose is complete, God himself will restore and establish you. Perhaps in a new level of responsibility, or with greater power to operate in. He is growing you up into Christ, refining you, strengthening you, leading you into greater things...
1 Peter 5:10 ...after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
Job 23:10 ...when he has tested me, I shall come forth as gold.
Why do some blame God? We chose to join the devil in rebellion. God is doing everything that he can (short of taking away our freedom), to lead us to love and truth. He sent the prophets and we stoned them, he sent his own Son and we brutally tortured and killed him. We chose to crucify Christ, rather than repent and learn to love one another, as he taught.
God loves us so much, that he endured watching us torture his Son - just so he could save those who would choose to turn from sin and suffering. Jesus loves us so much, that he took the abuse, in order to save us from ourselves, and the devils manipulations. God himself suffers and is grieved, he can identify with you in your sufferings.
This brings us to grace. Jesus provided a way for you to wipe the slate clean, even if your sins have caused great suffering to others. He took the punishment you deserve, and if you will allow him to (freewill), he will apply the merits of his sacrifice to cover your sin. He will also transform you, by the renewing of your mind, and form a right character in you - if you allow his Spirit to indwell you.
Rev. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Notice that God is actively seeking entrance to your heart. He seeks, he knocks, he calls, but it's up to you to open the door and let him in. He doesn't force his way in, a synergism exists whereby God initiates and we respond.
Please don't get lost in the endless arguments between Calvinism and Arminianism. The extremes of both positions are wrong. A strict fatalistic monergism is flawed, as is an over emphasis of man's part in the synergy, such that God's sovereignty is not acknowledged.
Our freewill exists within the predetermined limits that God, in his sovereignty, has imposed
God foresaw the problem of sin. In fact, the plan of salvation was predestined before the world was formed. Rev. 13:8 the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world...
The plan of salvation was predestined, but your participation in it is a freewill choice
It's up to you to choose the free gift of salvation by faith in Christ, or to continue in sinful rebellion until God is forced to end the suffering you are causing - the hard way. The finally impenitent will meet their fate.
2 Peter 2:5 he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people...
Psalm 37:38 But all sinners will be destroyed; the future of the wicked will be cut off...
Romans 6 For the wages of sin is death...
Ezekiel 33:11 - As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.
Unfortunately, most people just don't get it. Don't blame God for what the wicked do, blame the wicked for not doing what God does – love.
Also, rest assured, judgement will be executed and the rebellion will be put down - along with the suffering it causes. For the people of God, there will be peace, love, and beauty forever - as it should be.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
Rev. 21:3-4 “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Amen! Amen! I thank God for this teaching, you have touched and blessed me. Many thanks Ken.
The Church of Christ need to hear this, people have compalined and have said all they have said about God, infact others have cursed God for their surfering. The truth lies in the teaching you have shared.
Stay blessed Man of God. Keep blessing us ( The Church) with such teachings.
In His Name.
Thanks for your feedback. It is especially meaningful, since you come from an area of the world where there is so much suffering. Your people have seen so many things first hand, that would greatly disturb us here in the West.
If in some small way, this teaching helps to make sense of such things, then I am very happy to have written it.
I do preach neither Calvinism nor Arminianism. But I preach what the Bible truly says. There isn’t any contradiction in the Bible. The controversy you underlined resides only in the mind of the Theologians you’ve mentioned.
Indeed, by grace we are saved through faith, and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8, Romans 6:23).
“He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5).
If works are needed for salvation, then salvation is no longer a GIFT.
I fully agree with you when you say that “We do not perform good works in order to become saved, but because we allow the Spirit of God to work in us - good works are the natural result”.
It’s true, Good works are faith expressed.
You also said this: “In my view, some things like the plan of salvation were predestined and in according to God's sovereign will. Other things operate by freewill, or choice - like our participation the plan of salvation”.
I see your attempt to reconcile “predestination” and “free will”. But the question is deeper that. If you stay at that level of comprehension, the so called controversy will still remain. However, there is no contradiction in the Bible.
Brother, “free will” is what you see physically, namely the outward choice to do right things or evil things.
But, fundamentally, have you ever seen a man or a woman who deliberately choose to disobey God or to sin, merely because she/he takes great delight in going to hell?
Brother Ken, in the present time till death you will choose to do right things IF YOU ARE BORN OF GOD. Amen!
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God”.
1 John 3:9
I agree that “free will” must be manifested. It lies on people to decide. But I also believe there is something behind each “free will”, depending whether we are born of God or Satan. Let us put the stress on that.
There is an inward WILL which arouses each outward free will of man depending whether his born of God or Satan (Philippians 2:13).
IT’S A QUESTION OF SEED. Please, think it over!
For instance, Ken Rich is an Artist today. Ken Rich decided freely to become a musician. To perform this target, he has worked hard, he has toiled.
That is his free will which people physically see (his deeds, fruits, testimonies).
But why didn’t Ken Rich endeavor to become a Mason or a Cook for example?
Besides, why doesn’t Ken Rich complain before God about his present status?
Simply because the Bible declares that "A man can receive nothing, unless it be given him from Heaven” (John 3:27).
Truly speaking, “free will” must be manifested. But there is something behind each “free will”, depending whether we are born of God or Satan.
The Bible says: ““And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world”.
God never fails, those names of whom are written in the book of life FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD WILL NEVER WORSHIP THE BEAST.
Those who are born of God will always do the will of God.
”For I say to every man that is among you, through the grace given unto me, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith” (Romans 12:3).
IT’S A QUESTION OF SEED.
For more details, I do invite you to read my blogs below available on the black preaching Network.
May God bless you!
I agree that the contradiction is only apparent, and in fact a construct of systematic theology itself, which tends to polarize issues into two or more camps, each with their proof texts.
It's like a coin - there are two sides and depth producing a relatively thick edge. It's only when seen in three dimensions, that all facets become apparent.
I agree that when we are born again, there is a seed implanted of the very Spirit of God.
However, I think you may go too far in your emphasis of he cannot sin, because he is born of God”.
That is like seeing a coin from only one side. The perception is only true until you look at it in three dimensions. It is of no use to "camp out" on this verse above, because the same author also says:
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous...
It can easily be seen that 1 John 3:9 does not have the strict emphasized meaning you assign to it, when taken in the larger context of other scripture, including scripture by the same author in the same book. It is clear that John is speaking of HABITUAL sin.
Our overall lifestyle is determined by our initial choice to accept Jesus, and our daily choice to remain in HIM. As long as we choose to remain in Christ, the Spirit will war against the flesh, so that we cannot sin habitually like we did before. Not that we will never stumble into sin, or have been rendered incapable of making a mistake, or that we can't choose to leave altogether and go back to the world.
James 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways...
Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after...John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
I see the long argument with Ozell Adams in your article. I have no desire to go down that road with you. Personally, my views on choice and predestination are similar to the brand of Arminianism taught by John Wesley. Enough debates already exist on this topic, by men more renowned, respected, and articulate than either of us - another debate would be fruitless.
I did notice on the end of your article that you seem to support the once saved always saved doctrine. HERE are many scriptures that may cause you to rethink your position.
It's absolutely true that nothing can snatch us out of the hand of God. However, it is also true that we can choose to leave or forsake the relationship.
The narrow views forced upon scripture by systematic theology, are symptoms of our methodology, not the Scripture itself. For instance, freewill, and predestination do not have to be seen as mutually exclusive. The plan of salvation was predestined, but our participation in it is by choice. God's sovereign will is not thwarted by our freewill, our choices exist within the boundaries set by God.
God Bless you,
I believe that the whole truth is NOT known by all of mankind. There are mysteries that are only known by God! When it was asked in Relvelation chapter 5, "Who Is Worthy to break the seals?" Notice that only Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son was and is the only one worthy enough. WORTHY IS THE LAMB! The Truth of some of the theology that we rebuttal back and fourth between ourselves will NOT be known until that day that we stand before The Lord. The theology that excites me most, is how we can have eternal life by faith, through grace in the Lord Jesus Christ.
.When I was called into the ministry, the gospel that mattered the most was that Jesus became the sacrifice, that we needed to be saved and have the hope of etenal life. When I was in Bible College, Theology was my major and Music was my minor. I used the theology in my youth ministry, and the music in (well) music ministry. I am sure that we will never have the total truth, but I KNOW THE ONE THAT DOES, and my faith in Him remains strong. The answers that I need and have will always come through my faith in my Lord and Savior. I am living by faith in my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I do not claimed to know all of the answers, but my faith tells me that we are in a battle against the Devil (Satan), and I may lose a battle every now and then, but I've read the ending, WE WIN!!!!!! When we stand behind the Lord during the battle of Armageddon, all we have to do is cheer Him on, and all He does is SPEAK death and destruction on those in the battle against the Christian World. My faith has grown to the point that I hear Jesus' calling, and know His will for my life. I have studied and I know theology, and I know where I stand, but my witness is the most important thing in my life.
7 And there was war in heaven . Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down — that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Rev 12:7-9 talks about a war that I believe took place eons before us, and it is still going on. It will not be ended until the Devil and his evil demons are triumpth over in the end of the world. Those of mankind that are good and have accepted the saving grace of Jesus will be with Jesus. Those that refused His saving grace will be destroyed with the Devil and his demons in the lake of fire. There IS a HIGHER POWER, an ALL KNOWING POWER, and we are simply HIS SERVANTS! I am SO GLAD that I serve God and not the wickedness of the Devil! Debates and discussions are fine to a point, but to elaborate on things that I believe only God knows is simply opinions, and unforunately are as many as there are people. While I enjoy discussing the Word of God, THE GOSPEL OF THE CHURCH AGE IS WHAT WE WERE CALLED TO DO. AND THAT IS THAT JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS TO BE THE SACRIFICE WE NEED TO BE SAVED AND HAVE THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. We had that eternity taken away from us when Satan tempted Eve, and Adam and Eve gave into that temptation in the Garden of Eden. God The Father, was able to give us that eternity back when Jesus (His only begotten Son) died on the cross of Calvary for our sins, and was raised 3 days later, having victory over death and the grave. WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN THE LORD, JESUS CHRIST. NOT OF OUR OWN WORKS, LEST WE BOAST.
My favorite Scripture is Romans 10:9-10. (9) if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Then in verse 10 it explains that) (10) For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Then in verse 13 it says. "for everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved."
This is the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST THAT GIVES US OUR ETERNITY BACK.
I hope I have said this plainly. In His Name, Rev. Zack Martin Sr.
I totally agree Zack. None of us know it all, even the great Apostle Paul admitted to limitations and expressed it this way.
1 Cor. 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Even the greatest theologians refine, adjust, or abandon earlier positions as they mature. Personally, my early stance was very narrow and legalistic, but became grace centered as my understanding grew. There are still many areas where I would like to understand more, like all of us.
I think that there is great usefulness in discussion and debate - up to a point. As long as it isn't simply causing divisions over disputable matters, or majoring in the minors, it can be very healthy and beneficial.
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
That's why I give quite a bit of lee way for such discussions in the regulations - truth is not fragile, and has nothing to fear from examination or debate - only darkness fears the withering light of scrutiny
I think one should also stand up to heresy and refute it, as best we can.
Acts 18:28 For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate...
2 Peter 2:1 ...there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies...
Jude 1:3 ...continue your vigorous defense of the faith that was passed down to the saints...
Having said all that, I completely agree, that we should keep going back to the core message of salvation by grace through faith in Christ - the Gospel. Our theological musings can wander into many areas, but the Gospel should never become obscured or neglected.
It's not necessary that everyone agree on the side issues, and we certainly shouldn't divide over them. However, those things which relate to the issue of salvation itself, are to be defended and expounded to the best of our abilities.
It's good to have TRAINED AND EXPERIENCED MINISTERS such as yourself here, to ensure that the Gospel is given it's proper place, and is clearly proclaimed.
Thanks for adding to our discussion, God Bless you...
I totally agree with you Ken, and I am not reputing anything I've read of your writings. My main point was to only remind us that we are not the final authority on any matter. God has that authority, but we DO have to spread the Gospel (God's Saving Grace) to those that are lost, because we are the CHURCH and even as our age is coming to a close, there are those that can still be reached for the Lord. I have studied Theology for years, and I have my beliefs and stands, and I voice them, but I try not to let them negate my witness for Jesus. We serve the same God and He love us all equally. He doesn't love me anymore than anyone else. THE GROUND IS LEVEL AT HE FOOT OF THE CROSS! That is the only reason I left the last response. I love and respect you and your teachings. God is a great God and people need to know what you've said. I have just read some of the replys back, not only on this, but on your stand about the Catholic Pope, and I wanted everyone to know that while we discuss these things, we do it only in the limited knowledge that we have, it is GOD that has the final says. I agree with your teaching because that's how I see it, but I won't let it stand in the way of my witness for Jesus. That is all I was trying to say. I hope it doesn't offend anyone, if it does then I guess I didn't get my point across clearly. God Bless You Ken, and KEEP GOING FOR GOD AS YOU ARE. INDI GOSPEL ARTIST WEBSITE IS STILL THE BEST AND MOST SPIRITUALLY FULFILLING SIGHT ON THE INTERNET.
Rev. Zack Martin Sr.
Unfortunately, a fallible person like myself (or an admin), has to sometimes make a judgement call. We have had to ban a couple people who (in our humble and fallible opinions) were teaching obvious heresies - which they couldn't defend by Scripture and reason (like the person who taught that Christians were actually worshiping Zeus).
However, most of the time there are no issues. I allow things I personally disagree with, or are highly controversial, as long as the poster doesn't try to block opposing comments that are damaging, or fatal, to their stated position. That way, the truth comes out in the counter-arguments.
Thanks for your encouraging statement about the nature of the site. I am glad you find it spiritually fulfilling. It is certainly intended to be, and GOD WILLING, it will fulfill it's mandate.
To add one thought to Brother Ken's discussion, having serve as a minister for God for over 35 years, I noticed in my own life and in many other of my minister friends that as the CHURCH AGE is nearing it's end, Satan is bolder in his fight against God and good. He is attacking Ministers of God today! When I became disabled in 2006 at the age of 56, I asked a minister friend of mine, "Brother, why is this happening to me?" I couldn't fulfill my obligations as Minister of Music and Youth Pastor because I was crippled so badly that I coudn't walk, and I am confined to a power chair. My minister friend looked me straight in the eye and said, "ZacK, who had you rather it happened to? God knows your faith and strength in Him, and that you are His child." Had you rather it happened to someone that doesn't know Him as Savior? You will be a spokemans to those, that God is Good, and looks after us even in the bad times. He didn't promise you a bed of roses, but HE DID PROMISE TO BE WITH YOU THROUGH IT ALL!"
That was the best thing I could have heard at that time. O, I went through a period of depression because I coudn't do revivals and concerts anymore, but I found out that I could reach MORE people through the modern age of communication, than I ever did as a local church minister. After I got my power chair I found out that I could do a few concerts locally if I spread them out, and guess what, I have been ask to preach and sing at my church on an upcoming Sunday night service
My point is this, suffering in my case has led to a new ministry for the Lord. I can still sing pretty good (not as good as I could when younger, but still pretty good). I am still God's servant. but my audience is different. With this age of Internet, I can still send the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ out to people that might not have and opporunity from a church minister. After I realized this my depression ended, and I will serve my Lord with my last dying breath, until I meet Him in heaven. While not a detailed account of my life, I hope you can see from this how God is with us even in suffering. I know well how Job felt, because I have tasted a little bit. I have started notes that I plan to use in a book about this, so pray for me that I can show God's power in times of suffering. I CAN STATE THAT GOD IS GREAT AND GOOD, AND I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE BECAUSE I HAVE ACCEPTED JESUS' GRACE AND FAITH, AND HIS BLOOD HAS AND WILL COVERE MY SINS.
God Bless You Al, Rev. Zack Martin Sr.
AMEN to that Zack. The Internet is the new mission field.
The cyberspace highways and byways are the best place to find the lost today, and invite them to the marriage supper of the Lamb.
I've heard local Church Pastors complain about shrinking congregations, and many Pastors today simply quit in the face of declining influence and relevance.
However, studies have shown that short (under 5 minute) messages, riding on social networking technologies, have the potential to go viral and reach millions.
Plus, the media is always there once uploaded. The Spirit can guide someone to it at any time thereafter, unlike a live meeting. It's a tremendous resource, the soul winning potential is enormous.
Thanks for your encouragement and thanks for an avenue of service for the Lord. I believe we can get the gospel out through such great sight as this one, and you have a talent to help us that don't know as much about the Internet as you do. I can never say enough thankyou's for that.