3 Little girls and a visit?

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CreatorPermalink Reply by Ken Rich on September 3, 2009 at 4:04am

Hi David,

I can understand that as someone indoctrinated from a young age with Catholic teachings, you may have accepted the elevation of Mary as co-redeemer, sinless, ever virgin, queen of Heaven, assumed bodily into heaven, and so forth.

However, the Bible does not teach those things, they were added later by the Popes. In the Bible, she was blessed among women to bear the Savior, but went on to have normal relations with her husband, and had other children.

The Bible does not teach that she has any role in our salvation, which is through Christ alone. The danger is, in worshiping her, you are not directing your worship toward God. Mary is not God!

There is nothing wrong with honoring Mary as the earthly mother of Jesus. The Bible describes Mary as "highly favored" by God (Luke 1:28). At the same time, ... The Bible nowhere instructs us to revere, pray to, rely on, or "idolize" anyone other than God. We are to worship God alone. Glory, praise, and honor belong to God alone. Only God is worthy to "...receive glory and honor and power..." (Revelation 4:11). God alone is worthy to receive our worship, adoration, and praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 15:4). Is worship of saints / Mary Biblical?

Those who would defend Roman Catholicism persistently press the illogical and invalid assertion that the Roman cult neither teaches nor in fact practices worship of Mary. They argue that, as concerns Mary and the other ghosts in the RCC pantheon, worship does not mean worship and venerate does not mean worship and render homage does not mean worship and pray to does not mean worship and sacrifice to does not mean worship. Words can be used to convey many meanings, a fact the Magisterium has consistently used to its own purpose. Catholicism's FALSE Worship!

How did Jesus instruct us to relate to his Mother? Did he attach any special status to her, during his earthy Ministry?

Matthew 12:46-50 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

If you read the Bible, you will find that she isn't even mentioned after Pentecost. Peter did not speak of her in his 2 books (although Catholics claim him as the first Pope), and most notably Paul, who so eloquently and forcibly makes plain the plan of salvation, is absolutely silent about her.

NOTE: If Jesus is constantly interceding for us and He is able to save us "to the uttermost," then He doesn't need Mary's help. If we can approach God with "boldness" and "confidence" because of our faith in Jesus, then we don't need Mary's help either. Worship of Mary

We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ, I agree, but instead of worrying about what he says to those who disrespected his Mother, perhaps you should be more concerned about what he will say to those who worshiped her, instead of God. Who depended on her to secure their salvation, instead of Jesus - the only mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 1:5).

With Love and Respect,

Ken

Permalink Reply by David Sanchez on September 3, 2009 at 10:56am

Not every catholic accepts her as co-redeemer, but as an intercessor? of course, and any christian that cannot wrapp their mind around that should never ask anyone to pray for them it is a complete contradiction, and manipulation of truth. The only argument I have in the past been given is that "well she is dead, and the pastor who prays for you is alive? What! then that leads me to beleive that person does not grasp eternal life or the fact that who is really in a better position to pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death??? I know Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life that is common knowledge, but to say I don't need Mary for intercession with her Son is to say we do not need a pastors prayer, or a brother, or sister in the Lord prayers??? Many truths derived from the bible by all christans are questionable ,and not flat layed out but rather reasonable assumptions. Do I have to everytime I visit someone be reminded to respect their mother because it is not posted at the entrance to their home?? Has anyone ever had to go through mom to get pop to do something?? REASONABLE ASSUMPTION Is Mary mother of Jesus relationship any different with her Son?? I am not indoctronated by any group I am merely looking at things realisticaly. If something is not in print it by no means rules another out. Again the bible is not God's master, only some of His insight to guide us and clearly teaches that we are pitiful at best tring to think for Him, or matter of factly decide what is, and cannot be, not completely anyway.

CreatorPermalink Reply by Ken Rich on September 3, 2009 at 12:13pm

CO-MEDIATOR - Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (Catechism 968-970, 2677).

There is only one mediator, and that is Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5-6 says, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all men -- the testimony given in its proper time."

Hebrews 7:25 says, "Therefore He (Jesus) is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them."

Ephesians 3:12 says, "In Him and through faith in Him we may approach God with freedom and confidence."

NOTE: If Jesus is constantly interceding for us and He is able to save us "to the uttermost," then He doesn't need Mary's help. If we can approach God with "boldness" and "confidence" because of our faith in Jesus, then we don't need Mary's help either. Worship of Mary

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Hi David,

There are enough links already posted in this thread to thoroughly answer any lingering questions you might have. It should be plainly obvious to you by now that Mary worship is not Biblical, and that the Bible does not teach that we require a co-redeemer, or intercessor, other than Jesus.

I am starting to think you are just being contentious. I hope this is not the case, I really hope we can agree to simply follow Scripture on this.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

At any rate, I have overtaxed myself, I need to rest. I can't run this network, plus handle all my other responsibilities, and keep debating you over this issue over and over again. I am stretched to thin to keep "flogging a dead horse' with you.

Make a decision - follow the Bible, or follow Rome. However, don't mince words and pretend that the Catholic Church doesn't teach she is co-redeemer, only an intercessor, or that they do not teach people to worship her, only venerate her.

Those are slippery semantics, worthy of a forked tongue, and the Magisterium are famous for such deceptive tactics - as was pointed out previously. Words can be used to convey many meanings, a fact the Magisterium has consistently used to its own purpose. Catholicism's FALSE Worship!

Your statement "Again the bible is not God's master, only some of His insight to guide us and clearly teaches that we are pitiful at best tring to think for Him, or matter of factly decide what is, and cannot be, not completely anyway." is very typical of Catholic thought.

If the Word of God is not your final authority, then you are on the same slippery slope as the "infallible" Popes, who invent doctrines from thin air, or steal them from gnostics and pagans - even when those teachings contradict, or are explicitly condemned by, the revealed word of God.

Again, review the articles linked in the posts already made and study the issue of sola scriptura.

I simply do not have the time or energy to keep this banter going forever.

With love and respect,

Ken

Permalink Reply by David Sanchez on September 3, 2009 at 11:00am

They both merit the same concern, but I believe He would be more tolerant of those that mistakenly loved her too much.

Permalink Reply by Lewis Paul Tavenor on September 2, 2009 at 9:16pm

David,
up until very recently I was a sabbatarian, thanks to Kens site and many answered questions by him, I am no longer under law but under grace in what Christ did to relinquish me of my personal sins.
I had a lot trouble with that one. I kept the seventh day Sabbath for over twenty years. What a revelation. I am still studying and still learning. Keep searching the scriptures!

Permalink Reply by David Sanchez on September 2, 2009 at 9:38pm

Amen! It is not about religion, it is about relationship. "Lest any man boast"

CreatorPermalink Reply by Ken Rich on September 3, 2009 at 1:49am

Amen to that!!!

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